Iran... Nothing? Really??

[Ace Kadet]

So. Where is the chest thumping, TRUMP!! MAGA!! King of the world BS that had been so prevalent for the last few years? Was AtoB driving Soleimani's cab? Tell us about meaningless wars in the Middle East. 

[Don]

This isn't defending president Trump just what I consider to be a less biased perspective than some we're hearing.

President Theodore Roosevelt's foreign policy was: "Speak softly and carry a big stick", but it doesn't matter how big a "stick" is, if the power that holds it refuses to use it. Unlike former president Obama who kept moving his "red line" and when it was repeatedly crossed then tried to pretend it didn't exist, Trump has shown Iran and the world that when our nations interests and our countrymen are threatened, he's willing to do something more than issue empty threats.

By taking to task a nation that has repeatedly threatened our land, our beliefs and our people - who after making it known they will do what they can to wipe us and others who don't fall in line off the face of the Earth and to those means are attempting to develop nuclear weapons... I personally don't happen to think of that as meaningless.

Iran’s Qassem Soleimani was a military leader who according to Mark Esper, was planning an attack that could be carried out within 'days' against American interests and American personnel in the region. Soleimani was in Iraq when our embassy in Baghdad was attacked and although we haven't heard any official word, may have been a central figure in planning that attack. It is known and there is proof that General Soleimani instructed Iraqi militia leaders, including his top ally in the country, Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, to step up attacks on US targets in the country during a meeting in October at a villa across the Tigris River from the US embassy complex in Baghdad.

Saudi Arabia is the No. 2 supplier of oil to the United States and recently Iran stuck oil fields in Saudi Arabia.. If anyone thinks trying to cripple America's oil imports, particularly from our second largest supplier isn't a national security and national economy issue for the U.S., they need to stop and think about it.

Iran has a choke hold on the Straights of Hormuz, in the Gulf of Oman, they've intercepted and even attacked oil tankers navigating through international waters.

In 12 May 2019, four commercial ships were damaged off Fujairah's coast in the Gulf of Oman. The ships included two Saudi Arabian registered oil tankers, a Norwegian registered oil tanker, and an Emirati registered bunkering ship. The ships were anchored on the United Arab Emirates territorial waters for bunkering in Port of Fujairah. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the United Arab Emirates reported that the ships had been subject to a "sabotage attack". The United Arab Emirates launched a joint investigation probe with United States and France. The initial investigation assessment determined that 5-to-10-foot (1.5 to 3.0 m) holes near or below all the ships' waterlines were probably caused by explosive charges. The United States accused Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) of being "directly responsible" for the attacks. The findings of an Emirati-led international investigation into the attacks has stated that a sophisticated and coordinated operation by divers from fast boats utilized limpet mines to breach the hull of the ships, concluding that a "state actor" is the most likely culprit

In June 2019 attacks on the Kokuka Courageous, flagged in Panama and operated by a company based in Japan, and Front Altair, flagged in Marshall Islands and operated by a company based in Norway, were attacked, allegedly with limpet mines or flying objects. Both ships sustained damage but there were no casualties. the United States blamed Iran for the attacks. Saudi Arabia and the United Kingdom supported the United States' accusation. Germany has stated that there is "strong evidence" that Iran was responsible for the attacks.

Iran has directly and repeatedly violated the terms of the Obama/Kerry "Iran nuclear deal" up to and including continuing their efforts to develop a nuclear WMD and a platform to take it to regional and intercontinental targets.

If the United States and other allied nations had stepped in with a "big stick" against Nazi Germany in 1939 when it invaded Czechoslovakia, breaking the agreement it had signed with Great Britain and France the year before in Munich, we might have avoided the catastrophic devastation of World War II. I say might, but I think it is reasonable to presume if Hitler's aggression had been met with a real threat of overwhelming military force instead hesitation and indifference, there probably wouldn't have been a second global war.

On a closing note on September 30, 2011, Anwar al-Awlaki, a U.S. citizen as targeted and killed in Yemen by a drone strike ordered by former president Obama - also without consulting Congress prior to ordering the strike and for less accessed threat than Soleimani.

In October 14, 2011 al-Awlaki's 16-year old son and also a U.S. citizen was killed in Yemen by another drone strike ordered by former president Obama and also without prior consulting Congress as far as I know he was no threat to the U.S..

What president Trump has done is just following the precedent of his predecessors, for which some of those same Politicians in Washington who are now condemning president Trump for his drone strike,  previously praised and defended former presidents like Obama for being "proactive" and defending "American interests" and our "national security" from a perceived "credible" threat.

Some of the reaction about president Trump's ordered drone strike against Iran General Qassem Soleimani is real and valid in my opinion... for instance I personally believe Trump should have consulted with Congress, in whole or in part prior for ordering the strike on Soleimani but the precedent was already there to bypass Congress so I really can't blame Trump for doing what other presidents have done.

But I'm also of the opinion that a lot of the objection to Trump's action is purely political. There are factions in and outside of Washington that have been trying to get Donald Trump 'unelected'  since before he was even sworn in and for many of those dissenting opinions I just consider it more of the same anti-Trump rhetoric.

[rcbuff]

 The negotiator,  Commander in chief authorized the disposal  of a widely recognized Iranian terrorist. No one is more aware that Soleimani was a terrorist than his government.

Iran's precision target avoidance, seems to be nothing more than a saber rattling political appeasement for its masses. 

 I think president Trump and his military advisory have demonstrated the type of response that any terrorist group should expect if they make attacks on US personnel or installations. 

 

 

[rcbuff]

  With the recent Iraqi invitation to leave their country, I can't think of a better time and incentive to make our exit from Iraq, leaving them with the promise of no return and the phone numbers of heads of state in countries that benefit the most  from the flow of oil in the region. 

 IMO, we shouldn't spill another drop of American blood fighting in these tribal wars. Israel being a staunch ally, probably deserves our support in the form of war machinery and technology.

[Don]

CNN:

Trudeau says Canada has intelligence showing the plane was shot down by Iranian surface-to-air missile

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canadian officials have intelligence from their own sources and Canada's allies that shows Ukrainian International Airlines flight 752 was shot down by an Iranian surface-to-air missile.

"This may have been unintentional," Trudeau said today, adding that international partners should be involved in the investigation.

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/iran-plane-crash-investigation/

First CNN talking heads speculated Ukrainian International Airlines (UIA) flight PS752 was "accidentally" shot down by one of the surface-to-surface missile Iran fired at U.S. positions in Iraq, now the Canadian PM says they have an indication the Ukrainian passenger jet was brought down killing all 176 people on board by a surface-to-air missile fired by Iran.

I understand in the heat of battle UIA flight PS752 may have been thought to be an incoming threat - but the passenger jet was not incoming, it was outgoing and all commercial passenger jets use transponders that clearly differentiate them as unarmed civilian aircraft...

It's my thoughts that the aircraft was intentionally targeted and shot down by Iran.

Now as to whether or not it was blown out of the sky because someone was trigger happy and it was a matter of "shoot first and ask questions later" or so inept they didn't bother to identify the aircraft before they launched a surface-to-air missile at it, the fact remains UIA flight PS752n was intentionally shot down and 176 people lost their lives. I don't know of any ground based anti-aircraft missile that just "accidentally" launches itself.

Now what, if anything the international community is going to do about it, remains to be seen.

[rcbuff]

 As I understand it the SA-15 Gauntlet can operate autonomously, essentially, act on its own in detecting, targeting and firing upon targets. If that is correct, it could be possible that without human interference the system acted on its own to fire upon the commercial airliner. If signal jamming was in play, that might create a scenario causing faulty operation.

 The most significant error that comes to mind is WTF was a commercial airliner with 176 souls aboard allowed to fly during a missile exchange.

 

 

Version française

TOR-M1 9A331 SA-15 Gauntlet Ground-to-air missile on armored vehicle

Description Technical Data Specifications Details view Pictures - Video

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Description

The TOR-M1 9A331-1 (NATO code : SA-15 Gauntlet) surface-to-air missile system is a mobile, integrated air defense system designed and manufactured by The Russian Defence Industry. The TOR-M1 is intended for effective defense of troops, civilian and industrial facilities from current and future air attack weapons, primarily high-precision weapons, as well as from aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles, guided aerial bombs and remotely piloted vehicles. The basic component of the system is a combat vehicle mounted on a cross-country tracked chassis of the intermediate weight category. The TOR-M1 combat vehicle can detect aerial targets on the move and launch air defense missiles at two highest-threat targets from a short halt. The TOR-M1 can be shipped by any type of transport, including aircraft. The TOR-M1 is capable of operating in an intensive aerial jamming environment. The TOR-M1 combat vehicle can operate autonomously, firing from stationary positions or on the move. Set-up time is rated at 3 minutes and typical reaction time, from target detection to missile launch is 5-8 seconds. Reaction time could range from 3.4 seconds for stationary positions to 10 seconds while on the move. Each fire unit can engage and launch missiles against two separate targets.

 

[rcbuff]

 Then we have the Iranian asset from Minnesota 

 

 

[rcbuff]

 And this educator/ terrorist sympathizer :

 

“

Quote

 

Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets,” the president wrote Saturday on Twitter. “We have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!”

That prompted a response from Babson College adjunct professor Asheen Phansey.

“In retaliation, Ayatollah Khomenei should tweet a list of 52 sites of beloved American cultural heritage that he would bomb,” Phansey said in a Facebook post. “Um… Mall of America? …Kardashian residence?”

Hilarious, right? Not to Babson College, which quickly canned him.

 

“Babson College conducted a prompt and thorough investigation related to a post shared on a staff member’s personal Facebook page that does not represent the values and culture of the College. Based on the results of the investigation, the staff member is no longer a Babson College employee. As we have previously stated, Babson College condemns any type of threatening words and/or actions condoning violence and/or hate,” the college said in a statement.

Phansey apologized for the post, saying it was just a joke.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/01/college-professor-says-iran-should-target-52-sites-in-america-gets-fired/

 

 

 

Quote

 

The Babson College staff member suspended after posting on Facebook that Iran should list 52 American cultural sites it would attack says he has now been terminated from the school.

“I am disappointed and saddened that Babson has decided to abruptly terminate my 15-year relationship with the college just because people willfully misinterpreted a joke I made to my friends on Facebook,” former Babson College Director of Sustainability Asheen Phansey said via a spokeswoman Thursday.

Babson had placed Phansey on paid leave while conducting an investigation. The college said in a statement Thursday he was “no longer a Babson College employee.”

“Babson College conducted a prompt and thorough investigation related to a post shared on a staff member’s personal Facebook page that does not represent the values and culture of the College,” the school said. “Based on the results of the investigation, the staff member is no longer a Babson College employee.”

https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/01/09/babson-college-staff-member-who-made-post-about-iran-no-longer-an-employee/

 

 

 

[rcbuff]

As promised:

 

[rcbuff]

On 1/7/2020 at 8:31 PM, Ace Kadet said:

So. Where is the chest thumping, TRUMP!! MAGA!! King of the world BS that had been so prevalent for the last few years? Was AtoB driving Soleimani's cab? Tell us about meaningless wars in the Middle East. 

 And Your perspective?

[rcbuff]

NYTimes video shows two missiles hit flight 752

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/world/iran-plane-crash-video.html

[Don]

Iran being Iran... did anyone really expect anything different?

After initially stating the Iranian government did not shoot down Ukrainian flight 752, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary the Iranian government admitted it did launch surface to air missiles to shoot down the Ukrainian passenger jet -

After initially stating Iran would send the airliner's "black box" to the Ukraine to be independently evaluated by other governments, Iran is now backtracking its promise to send the passenger jet's black box abroad for analysis.

FOX News:

Iran backs away from plan to send downed Ukrainian jet's black boxes abroad for analysis

Hassan Rezaeifar, the {Iranian} official leading the investigation into the Jan. 8 mishap – which killed all 176 people on board the plane -- was quoted by the state-run IRNA news agency Sunday as saying “the flight recorders from the Ukrainian Boeing are in Iranian hands and we have no plans to send them out.”

Rezaeifar said Iran is working to recover the data and cabin recordings, and that it may send the flight recorders to Ukraine or France.

“But as of yet, we have made no decision,” he noted.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/iran-plane-crash-black-boxes

[rcbuff]

 I do believe that Iran's downing of the aircraft was an accident.   Iran seems to have owned up to being at fault and while I am concerned about  international intervention in a sovereign nation's business in seeking nuclear weapons,  the mistake in bringing down this aircraft is certainly reason to pause.

[DonF]

you two got that **** going quick now switch hand and pretend atoz is helping .

we all know Iran was just an attempted diversion from trump criminal behavior

****Edited by moderator to remove profanity - 

This is a forum open to people of all ages - and as such, even though this is a forum that highly values one's freedom to express themselves, at the start of the year I will attempt to better "moderate" content by removing profane content when and if, it becomes necessary.

[Hutch]

On 1/22/2020 at 4:57 PM, DonF said:

you two got that **** going quick now switch hand and pretend atoz is helping .

we all know Iran was just an attempted diversion from trump criminal behavior

****Edited by moderator to remove profanity - 

This is a forum open to people of all ages - and as such, even though this is a forum that highly values one's freedom to express themselves, at the start of the year I will attempt to better "moderate" content by removing profane content when and if, it becomes necessary.

Nope.  We all don't KNOW  Iran was just an attempted diversion.  However there is a group of people that THINK so.